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Re: I am not pleased with FAP right now. This post contains the input of a half dozen long timers
Posted By: Sandy In Response To: Re: I am not pleased with FAP right now. This post contains the input of a half dozen long timers (Josh Anderson)
Date: Saturday, 2 October 2004, at 5:58 p.m.
QuickPros is working well for people. I didn't appreciate being pushed into QP by FAP either, however, the check that QP built is the only one I have today and its growing so what can I say? That's what I'm doing now.
I have been very disappointed in FAP and Sid Zagri. I believe Sid was kicked out of all the companies you mentioned.
I started doing well when I followed what the QP system and not what Sid and Rob tell me to do!
I suggest you take another look. I found this page doing a search on FAP to see what is happening with it now.
Peace & Light,
Sandy> Since you are on the topic of MLM and The Free Agent Path has been
> discused I thought I would provide you with my insight and the insight of
> some of my mastermind team members.> In this long and in depth thread you will find the posts of members of FAP
> who are members of my mastermind, Mark Joyner's mastermind, and leaders of
> other large organizations in FAP. I have also spoken personally with a
> person who after having an ogranization of 4000+ in FAP and being a member
> of Mark's mastermind left because of some of the concerns discussed below.> This post is long in depth and very specific. It will list the costs
> associated with FAP and it's income streams show a huge attrition rate
> that is common in many FAP groups right now and discuss the increadibly
> low conversion rate of the leads that FAP is pushing on its members. You
> will also find an outline of how FAP has outpriced it's target market and
> made it financially out of the reach of the average marketer to make a
> real go at FAP before they go broke.> I have been a member of FAP from the beginning. I am on Mark Joyner's 2nd
> level a member of one mastermind and a leader of another. I have done live
> teleconference trainings, designed a marketing training site with scripts
> and audio training, and started a forum. All this I did to help train my
> organization of:> Total Members
> 1 (Your Direct Team) 10
> 2 147
> 3 218
> 4 129
> 5 137
> 6 109
> 7 1
> Total 751> (This does not reflect the attrition rate hundreds have come and gone over
> the months)> However, I am not pleased with the recent turn of events in FAP.
> I was and am by no means an inactive member of FAP but now my mastermind
> and I are discussing how we can make lemonade out of lemons.> I was and have been in profit my whole time in FAP but this is not the
> case for the majority of my organization members and this is not due to
> them not working the system. The fact of the matter is that I have had
> members who have worked their duffs off and have just been cash bled by
> all of the FAP reccomended services.> I love the people and have no complaints against the people. They do their
> best. But for the average marketer the best in FAP (IMHO) won't help them
> at all.> Permit me to show you why I feel this way. Please realize that I have come
> to these feelings after working for months even personally with people on
> my fourth level to help them build profitable businesses.> I am posting this here not to ask for opinions but to offer a case study
> and allow you to make up your own mind.> That being said he following is a series of conversations and posts about
> what is really going on in many FAP teams three levels and deeper. The
> contributers to this conversation have all been members of FAP from the
> beginning and one of the people (my sponsor) is in Mark Joyner's
> mastermind:> Date: 01/22/2004
> From: Gina Weiss
> Subject: Sherry?
> Hi All,> Seems we're all quite busy, thought I would touch base to
> see how everyone is doing...> I don't see Sherry's name listed as part of the group
> anymore. What's up?> Gina
> Delete this entire thread
> Date: 01/22/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: Hi Gina
> She has quietly bowed out. I am sad to see her go.> How are you? Are you still marketing online via your site?
> I have some nice projects about to be born online if you
> would like to take a look when they launch.> Josh
> Delete this reply
> Date: 01/23/2004
> From: Gina Weiss
> Subject: Sorry to hear
> Hi Josh,> I did get your response last night. The site was down when
> I tried to get back here...> I'm sorry to hear about Sherry. Will miss her!
> Yes, I'm still plugging along. Slowly but surely; have a
> (hopefully temporary) problem with some bones which makes
> it nearly impossible to sit for any length of time. It has
> slowed me down a bit online. (also temporary)!> I certainly will take a look when they launch. I usually
> keep an eye on your internetbusinessideas.com to see what
> you have going on, which is not always easy to keep up
> with! Your site is one of my favorites....very nice. Funny,
> I was looking closely at the Profits Vault for some time
> and there you were with it.> I missed the call last night, tried to dial in several
> times and kept getting "incorrect access code". I was truly
> disappointed.> I'm excited about the 2.0, I think they came up with a
> marvelous solution to those who will not be joining LFI.
> Will be trying to get my team excited as well.> I will be looking to see what you have up your sleeve 'this
> time'!> Warm Regards,
> Gina
> Delete this reply> Date: 01/23/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: You aint seen nuthin yet....
> Thanks Gina,> I the realm of internet marketing... please speak with my
> any time. Especially if you have questions about any
> service or product you see on the net.> If I was to tell you all that I am working on behind the
> secenes you would probably fall asleep reading the text.
> Needless to say just stay tuned.> One of the great blessings I have found lately is the
> network of online JV partners and contacts I have made
> lately. The key for making these connections has been one
> way or another taking part in a couple very high quality
> online marketing forums.> I have also found a great way to use FAP's newly
> reccomended Madison Dynamics to communicate with one of my
> business partners so that he can see what I am doing on my
> computer as I do it and we can talk as well.> I am not impressed with the expenses in FAP. The average
> marketer can not afford $400+ to start and $360 a month to
> keep going let alone recruit 7 in thier first month to make
> FAP self funding.> But It is still a great tool for communication.
> Please stay in touch :-)
> Josh
> Delete this reply> Date: 01/23/2004
> From: Gina Weiss
> Subject: I agree
> As always, Josh, I agree with you. Does this mean that they
> have lost touch with the "average Joe?"> I've heard from prospects that that is most of the problem
> with FAP. I remember when I was one of Mike Chen's
> subscribers and he was (or seemed to be) humble and caring.
> It seems to have been lost somewhere???> For ALL of you, please contact me ANYTIME at
> gweiss@theemailbox.com I will stay in touch, Josh. You are a very
> special person
> who cares. I hope you never lose touch with that - and I
> really don't think you ever will. It's "innate."> Thank you so much for everything. You are a shining mentor.
> Warmest Regards,
> Gina
> mailto:gweiss@theemailbox.com Delete this reply> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Bob Thoden
> Subject: OK, - - if no one is in the forest when a tree falls, does it
> make a sound?
> I guess we've all wondered to ourselves when the first salvo
> of questions would be voiced. Team spirit aside, the Free
> Agent Path has become very narrow.> Like some of you, I have also continued my quest for
> opportunities and have come up with a dandy that involves a
> billion dollor 15 yr old company. But, I am reluctant to
> interfere with anyone and their belief of what they can get
> out of the Free Agent path.> Your thoughts and honest feelings on introducing my new
> venture to the group (including yourselves) would be
> appreciated. To be honest, this new venture will
> necessitate me leaving the Path - too many directions
> diludes the effort - remember the five steps? As I like to
> put it - spreading the butter too thin only rips the slice
> of bread!
> Delete this reply> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Gina Weiss
> Subject: I'd be interested
> Hi Bob,> I understand what you are saying; I have shared your
> reluctance as such. AND I would like to learn more about
> the company you spoke about. Feel free to contact me at
> address above. I'd be happy to receive your email.> Thanks,
> Gina
> Delete this reply> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Gary Gile
> Subject: My thoughts also
> Well, team. It has been an interesting experience being
> part of FAP. I must admit that I have been siting on the
> sidelines most of the time. But it is for a reason. I do
> not want to promote something that caters to the wealthy
> and the "heavy hitters" only. At first I thought FAP would
> keep the little person in focus. But as new programs are
> added, the cost goes up and up. I realize that if I work
> my butt off and follow the program I can get enough people
> in to cover my cost but will the people I bring in be able
> to do the same?? And if they can't then I will have to find
> more. Our leaders need to realize that there is always
> someone at the end who is footing the bill and carrying
> everyone else. The must be able to become profitable
> within two months or they are gone.> I am going away for a week of rest and meditation. When I
> return I will finalize my course of action, as I must start
> making money.> LFI has good products but not great products. Many
> nutritional companies have good products but they are not
> as costly as LFI and some of them have better payout
> plans.> T.O. has good leads but not great leads. I can get the
> same quality leads at a fraction of the cost.> A mastermind group is a very powerful group and I will miss
> this group if I leave. But I will form or join another as
> one person can never make it on his/her own. There is
> power in numbers.> Well, I need to finish packing. I will update you in a
> week.> Gary
> Free2u@sbcglobal.net Delete this reply
> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: I have been biting my toung...
> I have been hinting at it for some time but not wishing to
> rock the boat I have not said much...> I agree totally with what Gary has said.
> Catering to the wealthy... honestly I like all the people
> in FAP but I think that the leadership have lost touch with
> the membership' needs and abilities. Somehow they envision
> that the average marketer (us who are already in FAP) can
> afford to launch a business with mediocre products for $360
> a month.> I gotta break it to you folks if I spend $360 a month on
> advertising my other products and services I will be making
> money instead of cash bleeding my self. If I was to spend
> the same time that it takes calling leads for FAP calling
> them for Mentors in Motion I would be generating thousands
> a month right off the bat and my only reocurring expences
> would be leads.> I have little time though for calling leads at the moment
> because I am finishing the touches on 3 new information
> products, an internet marketing university (jv with other
> marketers and coaches), and an offline coaching JV for
> internet marketing and real estate.> I like and use the products from LFI but I am a bit
> discouraged by the selection just for my own personal use.> I also agree with Gary in that success should be measured
> by how many people you help succeed. Since the introduction
> of QP I feel like I have been fighting an uphill battle and
> that FAP has now began to really cash bleed its members.> Basically we have been forced to pay for QP or hit the
> road. This is what I butted heads with Rob Fighter about
> behind the scenes. It is obvious to me but well hidden by
> the leadership that if you do not Join QP regardless of
> whether you are in LFI or TO you will loose members of your
> team and they will be cross recruited to your upline who is
> in QP.> Why do you think they mentioned in the last FAP newsletter
> about making FAP and QP seemless? They wont come out and
> say it but if you FAP downline signes up for QP without you
> You Loose. This simply is not fare to many of the members
> of our team and I asked those hard questions in the Help
> system which were then erased and I was told that I was
> just ranting. I wanted answers but the leadership is afraid
> to admit that some people will inevitably be hurt. The
> leadership is not out to hurt people but with large checks
> coming in they have lost touch with the FAP membership only
> 3 levels deep in many teams!> Another thing that bothers me is that QP charges so much
> for self replicating websites without paying commissions.
> Sid and Chris even went so far as stating on one of the
> first calls with FAP that they made no profit from QP.
> Bull! The first month covers the cost of the tapes,
> postage, and customer service, every month after will cover
> the cost of bandwidth and conference calls with a nice
> healthy profit! We are in thier downline as well. Do we
> really buy the fact that we are not making them a ton of
> cash. All they and Fred Stege had to do is sponsor Mark
> Joyner and voila! Instant customers for TO, QP, MD, and a
> healthy LFI downline addition.> I have no qualms with the dedication, skill, and even the
> products and services these companies provide. But when
> they pretend that they are not in it for the money it
> really ticks me off! What ticks me off even more is when
> they cash bleed my team to death before most have a chance
> to get off the ground.> They have lost touch when they dont realize that the
> avarage person does not have $450 to get started (the min
> cost of all programs together) and $360 a month to stay
> involved. This would not be so bad if we had qaualfied
> leads for that high end market. The truth about TO is that
> they are some of the highest quality unshared and fresh
> leads in the market. They are not however qualified enough
> to be the leads that we can use successfully to build FAP.
> I know where we can get those type of leads but at $5 a
> pice (from my most reliable and qualified source) they are
> not worth wasing on FAP when there are better opportunities
> that pay more.> During the last couple weeks I have been communicating with
> other FAP members outside of this mastermind and posting my
> concerns to Erics mastermind in hopes for feedback. Some
> time the silence has been defining. We are not the only
> ones in FAP to be having this reality check. I am going to
> post my list of concerns that I have posted to Eric's
> mastermind below.> I will also be opening up another thread in this mastermind
> where we can make lemonade from these lemons outside of FAP
> so please read it and post your responses there as well.> Delete this reply
> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: Is FAP Cash Bleeding its members? My feelings and concerns...
> This is taken from my post to Erics Mastermind a little more
> than a week ago:> Here is my response to a concerned leader in FAP who sent
> me
> an email after reading a recent help ticket I posted about
> my concerns over the introduction of Quickpros to FAP. His
> email is also posted in the first reply to this thread. I
> feel that we should discuss these challenges as a
> mastermind:> Brandon:
> I am an optimist by nature and work very closely with a
> member of Marks mastermind even offering training outside
> of my organization.> However, I share your concerns and feelings. If we as the
> leaders in FAP are feeling this way I can only imagine
> (and
> now see from the attrition) what the rest of the
> membership
> feels as they get buried in fees.> The reality now is that the cost to join all the FAP
> income
> streams and services (which is now necessary for FAP to
> function) is becoming prohibitive.> Cost analysis:
> 1. LFI: $160 min/monthly for 100 BV (necessary for
> Quickpros.> 2. Quickpros: $75 + $30 for initial set up (quarterly fee
> is cheepest option) or $30 for a month and $30 to set up.> 3. TO: $130 first month and $70 monthy
> 4. Madison Dynamics: $79.85 monthly plus setup fee $20.14
> during leaders launch later you can buy in for $39.95
> monthly plus setup fee $29.95 or $59.92 monthly plus setup
> fee $29.95 for less favorable comp plans.> The Total minimum cost to subscribe to all services the
> first month is $470! Then you will have to at least shell
> out $340 a month to stay current in all the programs. Even
> if you eliminated MD which is not essential to start your
> minimum starting investment will be $370 and your monthly
> min to stay current in all programs would be $360.> I have a membership of 700+ with many upgraded in LFI and
> TO. I have gone beyond the mark in training and working
> with my teams but with the recent surge in attrition and
> the introduction of QP (which you must upgrade in to make
> sure you do not loose new LFI and TO upgrades) I am no
> longer earning a profit.> I am on Mark's second level... how many on the third level
> are self funding?> I have a great amount of respect for Sid Zagri but am
> greatly disturbed by statements made by him and Chris on a
> recent FAP call that they are not recieving profit from
> Quickpros. I have never paid such a high price for a
> program offering self replicating sites, customer service
> and a one time mailing (per pro upgrade) of two tapes
> without being offered a commission for each of my downline
> that I brought in. Quickpros is a monthly billed program
> and if each member has just a two month subscription it
> will bring in tremendous profits for the Owners!!! Even
> though they are offering excelent services, adding
> Qucikpros to FAP at this time and basically giving those
> who wish to earn using FAP no choice but to join or loose
> new downline to upline members who upgrade in Quickpros,
> is
> adding to a serious cash bleeding situation.> Yes a few leaders in FAP who are platinum in LFI are not
> going to want to here this but just ask the downlines how
> they feel about the monthly expense created in the FAP
> system.> Also although I am impressed with Madison Dynamics and can
> use ICommunicator in my other business. There is no part
> of
> it that is necessary for FAP at this time. It does not
> offer PC to Phone service and you can obtain free phone
> conferencing services through www.mrconference.com and other free phone
> conferencing services online.> I love the power of the mastermind and the reality is
> unless we learn to look at this situation from all angles
> including the points you and I have brought up we are goin
> to fail. We must provide solutions to help our downlines
> create an immediate monthly income of $400 to cover the
> cost of FAP or look for other solutions to simplify
> outside
> of FAP.> If a mastermind member cannot upgrade to Quickpros but is
> a
> LFI and TO member then the only real solution for them is
> to create an info site seperate from FAP that can
> introduce
> thier prospects to LFI and inspire them to get more info.
> They can introduce them to TO or another lead sourse
> later.
> In my opinion a person who is not a Quckpros member should
> follow the prospecting suggestions that I outline at the mastermind site.
> In this situation you should not introduce a prospect to
> FAP untill after they enroll in LFI and TO (if you are
> using TO) otherwise they can get cross recruited into an
> upline's organization If the join Quickpros before LFI and
> TO and you are not a member of Quickpros. If you are not a
> member of Quickpros the smart steps to avoid
> crossrecruitment would be to intro duce a prospect to LFI,
> TO, and then invite them to join your FAP mastermind
> (which
> is a viable and funtional tool). This way if your prospect
> decides to join Quckpros and you are still not a QP member
> they are already in your downline for LFI and TO and you
> get paid for your recruitment and training efforts and not
> someone else.> These challenges bring up serious ethical issues. If you
> do
> the recruiting and are LFI and TO member in FAP but not a
> QP member and through the FAP system a prospect you
> recruited to FAP joins Quickpros first and then LFI and TO
> you will loose them from your downline!!! The only way to
> avoid this t is to never introduce Quickpros untill a
> person signes up for LFI and TO through the proper sponsor
> in FAP as it is currently set up and then Quickpros is
> introduced after that and only after that to serve as an
> expensive retention tool. Since Quickpros is meant to be a
> LFI conversion tool this is a bit redundant.> Quickpros in reality may just be adding to a cash bleeding
> situation buy taking money from the FAP economy without
> returning commissions for the monthly fees back to the FAP
> economy to contribute to the perpetual growth of FAP.> Intstead the money generated from QP monthly fees pays for
> the QP services and profits go to its owners. Meanwhile
> crossrecruiting happens adding additional income as the QP
> owners downlines are built in LFI, TO, Cognigen, and other
> services offered in QP.> Althought the services are quality the draining of funds
> from a FAP economy that works more efficiently the more
> perpetual (the more commissions that are kept within FAP)
> is detrimental and will eventually lead to a higher and
> higher attrition rate.> I know it was not meant to be this way but currently FAP
> is
> just operating as a money grab for upline team members as
> more and more money is siphoned from downlines by piling
> on
> services before the ability to create real sustainable
> incomes is created. One would be tempted to argue against
> this but you must remember that in order to have all
> members of FAP who upgrade in LFI and TO land in your
> downline they must not join QP first if you are not a QP
> member already and in order to be a QP member you must
> keep
> a level of 100 BV in LFI which is a minimum $160 monthly
> investment.> So at the bear minimum in FAP we must help train out new
> members in LFI so that they will earn $160 from the first
> month in commissions else they will be cash bleeding and
> violating one of the 5 commitments in FAP.> How can we teach a system which lines out the 5
> commitments
> of FAP and then turn around and teach our downlines to
> violate the essential "stop cash bleeding" commitment?> In order to make FAP self funding you will need to have a
> minimum of 2 personal 100BV LFI in your first level, and 4
> 100BV LFI on your second level, You will also need to
> sponsor a minimum of 8 personally enrolled TO pro members.
> You will then need to esure that none of these people
> unsubsctibes in order to keep your business self funding
> on
> a monthly basis. In order to add more services such as QP
> and Madision dynamics and self fund you must sponsor a
> minimum of 3 more 100 BV LFI on your second level or
> Personally sponsor 6 more TO pro members. If you have
> addional expences such as extra lead orders, phone bills,
> internet bills, training materials, etc you must
> additionally sponsor more people to cover those expences.> So in reality in order for a person break even the first
> two months for membership expences alone they will need to
> sponsor 7 personally enrolled 100 BV LFI and Pro TO
> members
> and Each of these members must in addion sponsor 1 100 BV
> LFI and Pro To members. That will return approximatly $560
> the first month and $280 monthly after that. Also they
> must
> continue that pattern every month after that if they are
> to
> make up for attrition and create profit.> I did a little better than that my first few months but
> now
> the huge attrition rate is eating away at my organization.> There are so many other more affordable products and
> programs to offer on the internet that bring a much higher
> return for the time invested that it becomes harder and
> harder to rationalize focusing on primarily promoting FAP.
> Currently I do tons of business consulting and let people
> find FAP through my site. In addition I send my leads to
> members of my organization on a tighter budget and help
> build their downlines and assist them in training.> Are we really offering the training in FAP as a whole that
> ensures that each new sign up to LFI and TO can personally
> enroll 7 and that ther & enroll 1 as outlined above? I
> provide the training that I belive can be used to
> accomplish this goal in the first month with the right
> leads and at least 10 hours a week of phoning prospects.
> But my answer is still no, I am not seeing most members of
> even my direct team experiencing the level of success they
> need to make their business self funding even after 3 or 4
> months of membership. I have even worked extensively with
> mebers of my organization 2 and 3 levels below me build a
> training website, sent them leads, and helped to build
> their downlines!> I am only on the third level in FAP (Mark being level one)
> If my first level (the 4th level of FAP) is seeing such
> hardships after upgrading in LFI and TO then how is the
> rest of FAP doing?> I am a problem solver by nature, and an experienced sales
> coach and network marketer, but I am not one to pretend
> all
> is well while Noah builds the Ark.> On another note I personally closed nearly 300 sales this
> week offline and recieved checks for online affiliate
> commissions, and online business consulting. One person
> that I assisted by consulting and fixing his website last
> month as a direct result of what I did for him earned
> $15,000 last month alone! Not all of my experiences last
> month were successes as I had on JV partnership fail but
> over all outside of FAP I turned a hefty profit in the
> last
> 30 days. The simplest success last month was illustrated
> when I joined one affiliate program with a monthly fee and
> immediatly sponsored two people recovering my investment
> and turning a profit.> I also built up another network marketing organization in
> a
> company outside of FAP to more than 600 people during the
> month of December. Less than 20 upgraded turning a small
> profit but not enough to really make me feel like I was
> well compesated for my time and energy. Why after
> investing
> so much time and money in FAP has it returned so little
> for
> so many?> I am not bailing out. I just wish to help my organization
> who have invested thier time and money into the Free Agent
> Path concept to succeed. If we stop focusing on promoting
> new programs and services and making them mandatory for
> FAP
> to be fully effective and just focus on teaching direct
> team members to sponsor 7 and then sponsor 1 monthly and
> then train them to teach their direct team members to
> sponsor 1 monthly we will be self funding for approx 2
> months. However, in order to sustain FAP we must do more.
> We must teach to teach to sponsor. The reality of it is
> that all levels need to be taught to sponsor 7 100 BV LFI
> and pro TO members their first month. If they do not we
> fail.> Sincerely,
> Josh Anderson
> Date: 01/10/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: Brandon's concerns> Josh,
> Thanks for writing me back.
> Want to know what I think?
> I think this is becoming very, very complicated.
> In addition to FAP, LFI and TO, which by themselves
> confused some people as to how the three were related, now
> they are sending in QP on top of it.> How is QP different than FAP anyway? Weren't both built
> to
> convert to LFI? I have seen the autoresponder messages,
> yes they are good, but why not just improve FAP's messages
> instead of adding another cost to this thing? Also, the
> QP
> messages barely ever mention a product, which I don't
> like.
> They just mention about how many people are underneath
> you
> and how you're going to lose them.> But what you didn't mention is that they are now
> introducing Fred Stege's new company as an income stream,
> and the company's name is Madison Dynamics (he also owns
> Traffic Oasis). This makes 5 different companies to
> explain to people. Plus, it's a STARTUP MLM. (Over 95%
> fail!)> On top of this, this flies in the face of two of the
> principal messages in FAP. One: only introduce income
> streams that supported our primary stream (LFI). Madison
> Dynamics does things like spreadsheet sharing online and
> Debit Cards... how does this support LFI? and Two: Most
> Network Marketing companies don't make it past 2-5 years,
> we have stability in LFI and you only want to go with a
> stable company blah blah blah... what happened here?> I also thought it was very interesting how they never
> mentioned or told us that Fred Stege was in our direct
> upline at LFI until a couple weeks ago.. at least I never
> heard about it.. they just said they were choosing TO
> because of their high quality leads. My team and I called
> over 1,000 leads between us and didn't convert a single
> person. Most people didn't even know why we were calling
> them. We have already cancelled our TO accounts.> And the worst part, which you just told me, is that people
> have to be 100 BV to be in QuickPros. Now they have taken
> away the option to bootstrap your way up from 25 to 50 to
> 100 BV. I'm not happy about that at all. My business is
> self-funding as well, but nobody else on my team has this
> luxury.> To tell you the truth, I am thinking about dropping this
> whole thing and just promoting LFI. This is getting to be
> crazy. I hate to sound bitter, because I was more excited
> about FAP than anyone.> I'm afraid Mark Joyner and his thirst for Joint Ventures
> and profit splits may be screwing this up more than making
> it better.> Best,
> Brandon> Date: 01/10/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: I have dropped from Gold to Broze and here is my 1
> st and 2nd level attrition and stats:> I just looked at my LFI stats and I must say that I am
> shocked!> I had some attrition over the last couple months but this
> month I have lost all of my 2nd level orders and only
> three
> of my 1st level remain with only two of them at 100 BV.> All I really have left is my 3rd level and below which is
> still growing and those only pay 2% commission:> Here are my second level stats:
> Level PIN Name and Contact Information Type Enroll
> Period Rank Last Order AS BATCH Potential ASO BV
> Total BV> 1 20420809 INTERNET BUSINESS IDEAS LLC M 8/03
> BRONZE Dec 30, 2003 21 104 0
> .1 20421049 GARY M 8/03 ASSOCIATE 2
> Dec 24, 2003 25 51 0> ..2 20436936 SHERRY M 11/03 CUSTOMER N/A
> N/A 0 0
> ..2 20428505 CHRISTOPHER M 9/03
> CUSTOMER N/A N/A 0 0> .1 20421050 MARKETING BUSINESS ADVANTAGE M
> 8/03
> CUSTOMER Oct 01, 2003 N/A 0 0> .1 20421181 CHRIS FALCK M 8/03 ASSOCIATE 1
> Dec 18, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20421261 ROCKY MTN TELECOM M 8/03
> CUSTOMER Aug 27, 2003 N/A 0 0> .1 20421293 DANIEL M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Oct
> 23, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20421297 GABRIELA M 8/03
> CUSTOMER Aug 27, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20421434 GEORGE M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Sep 25, 2003 N/A 0 0
> ..2 20422005 GLENN M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Sep 22, 2003 N/A 0 0> .1 20421525 BOB M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Sep
> 22, 2003 N/A 0 0> .1 20425042 KINNEY SERVICES INC M 9/03
> ASSOCIATE 3 Jan 09, 2004 11 104 104> ..2 20425250 RON M 9/03 CUSTOMER
> N/A N/A 0 0> ..2 20425256 CHOPSTICKS.COM INC. M 9/03
> ASSOCIATE Jan 01, 2004 N/A 0 0> .1 20428570 STEVE M 9/03 ASSOCIATE 3
> Dec 17, 2003 623 100 0
> ..2 20444149 MARY M 1/04 N/A N/A
> N/A 0 0> .1 20429878 WILSON M 10/03
> CUSTOMER Oct 28, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20432359 CLARENCE M 10/03
> CUSTOMER N/A N/A 0 0> .1 20420826 GINA/ASSOCIATES M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Aug 26, 2003 N/A 0 0
> .1 20420984 OXYWAVE M 8/03 ASSOCIATE 3 Nov
> 25, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20420990 MICHELE M 8/03 CUSTOMER
> Sep 25, 2003 N/A 0 0> ..2 20422963 MICHAEL M 9/03 CUSTOMER
> N/A N/A 0> Date: 01/11/2004
> From: Eric Duvall
> Subject: Income Streams> I understand everything that is being expressed. Let's
> get
> down to the basics real quick. Within LFI, you certainly
> can have less than 100BV to grow the business. FAP does
> not want to cash bleed anyone. All that is required to be
> in FAP is to join one income stream. So let's take LFI,
> they can easily join the lowest level, Option 1, to start
> building their team. The don't have have to join any
> other
> program (that we are trying to use to assist in growing
> their business). Now, MDI is another tool that has the
> potential to help build the team. There will be an option
> to have VoIP phone to phone in the very near future.
> Nobody has to join this unless they feel the need to use
> the product. So all in all, we are not trying to "cash
> bleed" anyone. Just trying to provide the right tools to
> assist in promoting LFI. At the same time this will take
> training along each level in the organization.> I agree with Josh, let's Mastermind this whole topic. I
> am
> masterminding this with Rob Fighter quite a bit. It has
> not been determinded how MDI will fit yet. One thing that
> is nice about MDI, is it does provide for an INT'L income
> stream until LFI enters thier country.> Eric
> Date: 01/12/2004
> From: Josh Anderson
> Subject: Where to look for qualified leads?> In my current situation it is almost as if I am starting
> from scratch because of the huge attrition rate.> Is anyone else in the group facing this challenge? I still
> have one strong leg and another very active team leader
> doing his best to build a team yet with many obstacles as
> he learns the skills of closing.> One team leader in Mexico who had a very strong team built
> has been all but eliminated buy the mounting cost of FAP
> and attrition in his team. Others have quietly bowed out.> It seems that now we will have to look for prospects of
> the
> highest qalifications... one's you don't often find in the
> TO leads. These must be people with a minimum of $500 set
> aside to in vest in a business for 1st month and $360 of
> flexible income to invest monthly as they get their
> business off the ground.> Where will we find these type of qualified prospects? Lead
> sources? Generating our own? Any suggestions?> Josh
> P.S. In my original post in my thread it is not my
> intention to insinuate that FAP was designed to chash
> bleed. However, one of the qualities of FAP is that it is
> a
> morphing and taking shape accorging to the neads of its
> members and the efforts of leadership to meet those needs.
> One of the drawbacks is that we have now graduated to the
> cost level that is probibitive for the majority of current
> FAP members and we must now find more qualified prospects
> who are financially able and qalified to work toward
> becoming advanced network marketing professionals very
> quickly.> Delete this reply
> Date: 01/24/2004
> From: Bob Thoden
> Subject: Right or Wrong doesn't Matter
> Josh, you hit it right on the head - - The silence from the
> upline was what made me mentally question - - just what the
> heck is going on?> Pushing all the stats and chaff aside, I for one can not
> afford the levels of output required. My vision when I
> joined this movement was that income streams would be
> introduced one by one. Each one would be given the time to
> build income for EVERYONE with a great assist from the more
> experienced and folks that brought in large groups. But our
> combined sales pitch to everyone was that anyone can
> achieve what their goals were! HOW? That's what the average
> person wants to know. So, we gave them 5 rules - which,
> incidently come back to haunt us. Stop the cash bleeding -
> HAH. I'm a good student - I did - stopped the automatic
> orders in LFI. TO leads are in essence, no good to me or
> anyone else - as I had verified above!! Glad to hear it - I
> was beginning to get a complex because I got no joiners.
> Guess what? I've cancelled them too, and I've used another
> order of leads for other programs with no success either.> I hate to end this on a downer, but the only thing i have
> gained out of this exersize is some, I hope, friendships.I
> will continue to believe that the best motto to adhere to
> is ***Each one, Teach one... Empower and Enhance the Life
> of at least one person everyday.***> If we can't accomplish that, I don't want to be a part of
> it.> Bob
> Delete this reply
> Date: 01/26/2004
> From: David McKinney
> Subject: I've been quiet
> I am one of those people that got into this thing hook line
> and sinker, I bought the farewell package, spent a ton of
> money to have it customized, and have never implemented it
> because of too many reasons to discuss here.> I bought the LFI packages, and used them, actually liked
> the products, but have a problem with the fact that I own
> my own nutritional company and had issues with actually
> taking a competing product line when I am growing my own
> business.> I tried the leads, and have had the same results as some of
> you. Nothing...> So here we are... intelligent motivated people, looking for
> a place that we can "hang our hat" that can help others as
> well as outsleves.> I think that Mark had a good idea, but the fact is that
> unless you find a program that is affordable for the
> average person, there will be no way to stop the bleeding
> and the attrition that is going on with FAP.> I am focusing on my own company at this point. I would be
> willing to entertain joint venture ideas any one of you may
> have to offer. If we have a mastermind group here and we
> feel called to serve and help one another, perhaps it may
> be helping where we are currently at. W> What gifts do each of us bring to the table?
> I am interested in finding out more about what each of you
> are doing and how I may help either in promoting what you
> are doing, or witht he shoe on the other foot, you helping
> promote what I am doing.> As far as what I do, I have a nutritional, skin care and
> environmental line of products that I have been promoting
> on-line since 1998. We have several websites, but the
> nutritional site is located at www.oxywave.com . Our
> environmental site is located at www.openallsoil.com The oxywave.com
> site is getting a makeover that I expect to
> have finished within the next couple of weeks.> Our business model is as a direct marketing company, not
> MLM, however I have a two tiered affiliate program and
> replicating website. I buy these supplements directly from
> the manufacturer, mark them up and re-aell them. I buy them
> at a great price, so I have a great profit margin that I am
> willing to share in.> THe point is this. If we are a part of this mastermind
> group and have been thrown together, perhaps we together
> can find something together to put our energy and talents
> into that may not be directly related to FAP, but something
> else.> I am open at this point as to what that can be but I am at
> least conviced of one thing, we have some really good
> people here, and obviously some motivated gifted people.> David McKinney
> Delete this reply
> Date: 01/26/2004
> From: Gina Weiss
> Subject: Yes, let's
> Hey David,> I get the distinct feeling that we are among many. I have
> heard from some of my direct team quite recently about
> their problems with FAP and they would like to continue
> [our relationship as associates] also. With or without
> FAP.> The same as you, I had an issue with LFI because I am
> involved in Eniva, and I ended up sending my product back
> to LFI. At times, I had thought maybe I'd made a mistake
> but I can see that I'm not alone with this dilemma, if
> nothing else.> I have a great many things to look at at this point but I
> will also look into your product; though it may take some
> time.> I would like to stay in touch with all of you and continue
> our brainstorming, be it JV's or whatever we come up with.> As always, Warmest Regards
> Gina
> Delete this reply> Date: 01/26/2004
> From: Bob Thoden
> Subject: Share and Share Alike!
> OK, one thing is for sure in what I've seen and read so
> far.> We're all seemingly convinced that Health is a major go for
> just about everyone's comments.> I, like most of you, have come smack into my number one
> conflict because I had, not one other, but three other
> network companies in the health field under scrutiny to
> build. I have since narrowed them down to one of two, but
> they both stack up better than LFI in my book.> I do not believe in spreading myself too thin, but I do
> have two companies that I think have the best potential for
> anyone to make a go of it. Health is certainly one. The
> other is in the technology field.> Bob
> Date: 01/30/2004
> From: Gary Gile
> Subject: Gary's thoughts
> Bob, I agree with you that nutritional products are a must
> have for networking and the other big one is technology.> One thing I have been thinking about is having several
> companies to promote, each with a low monthly cost. Each
> company would be for Internet training and for lead
> generation.> New people coming in would have to get in a line to wait
> their placement. Each would be placed such that the end
> result would be everyone being a little profitable.> The next step would be to ad more expensive product lines
> like nutritionals and technology, again placing people such
> that each becomes profitable.> What this means is I will not necessarily have the same
> sponsor in each program. I may sponsor one person in one
> program and he/she may sponsor me in another.> Once we are profitable then we can start building our own
> dynasties. The first stages are built to train each how to
> market on the web and how to become profitable in the
> anticipation that we can carry it further on our own.> As you can guess these are my first thoughts and I do need
> to work on them more. And yes I can become quite
> idealistic and perhaps naive at times but I do believe that
> in truly helping other we will help ourselves.> Gary
> FAP is a learning experience. It is a great communication tool. It however
> is a very expensive business to get started in. It will cost approximatly
> $460 USD your first month to enroll in all the programs and then $360
> monthly there after.> The reality is that you must recruit 7 people who enroll in all the income
> streams their first month in order for you to break even and turn a tiney
> profit. These 7 people need to have $500 to get started minimum to cover
> long distance etc.> Those type of prospects are hard to come by and Traffic Oasis (FAP's
> chosen lead company) DOES NOT provide leads that meet these specs!> FAP joined with Quickpros which charges $29 monthly and PAYS NO
> commissions for your referrals. QP is a good recruiting system but they
> are raking in the dough because of their relation ship with Mark and FAP
> (we are all in thier downline).> I have found that QP has just as poor a conversion ratio as a recruiting
> system as FAP does plus your prospects must purchase the most expensive
> level of memership in LFI to become a QP member.> In order for the 7 you have to recruit to all income streams to be
> successful to become profitable themselves they must recruit 7 in FAP
> their first month as well and get those 7 to sign up in all the income
> streams then those 7 must do the same and so on.> If this was to happen then everybody would be profitable.
> The only problem is this is not happening. As is the case in most MLM
> programs that fee their members to death before they get started.> Please remember that this is only my experinece and the experience of my
> team members. However, I have spoken with enough people in FAP to know
> that this is a widespread problem.> Josh Anderson
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